The only session on Day 2 evening was Globalization Panel Discussion
Globalization Panel Discussion
May 26, 2002 (~
7:30-10:00 p.m.)
A.I.D. Conference
AID participates in grassroots struggles. But in globaliozation, we are still fathoming policies. Its time to understand what AID can do about globalization. Three panelist
Antonia Youhas (involved in WTO protests and other gloabalization initiatives)
Amit Srivastava (Corpwatch). International programs coord.
Aruna Roy (MKSS). Right to information. Grass roots movements against corporate globalization in India.
Sanat is going to be moderating this discussion.
1. Initial:
Antonia Youhas.
Started in 1994. Forum working against G. Needed collective effort to do this work. Forum for G. Does public education, speaking, anti corporate G organizing etc.
What institutions create G. India receives a lot of loans (IMF etc), been one of the most impacted by WTO policies (harmfully). So all institutions that fall under G are discussed.
G means corporate driven economic model. Growth driven by corporations and then this growth trickles down to society. This is designed to create a certain level of wealth and this makes down to the rest of society.
So G has been responsible has generated a lot of wealth, but a few people benefit. The inst. Of G have a specific birthplace -- Massachusetts after WW2.
The WB was created for development for the reconstruction of economy and the United Nations took it up. IMF had a good idea, to create hotspots of economy downturns. So that countries needing help cud be helped. But it was used to open markets. developing market… resources that were available… and use them.. Human, natural etc. So multinationals had access to setting up shop in developing countries. Accessing them by removing as many restrictions on them.
Governments shouldn’t act as impediment to interests of multinationals. Export led development. Labor is specifically part of it (other are capital and natural).
WTO started in 1995. New turn on trade agreements. Instead of controlling flow between countries.. they went inside the countries, and tried to control that. The agreement on agriculture had the biggest impact. First you need to export as much as possible and then open land to let multinationals to come in.
One of the important victories of Mexico to reserve land for indigenous programs. US made them change that. Results resulted in destroying corn industry.. which was the biggest.
Cheap corn got dumped in Mexico (due to subsidy in US).. so dislocated people from livelihoods and homes.. go to urban areas and compete for jobs. That increases pool of unskilled labor (dramatically). Legal restrictions are not imposed by the IMF … and that resulted in labor rates to drop. And small number of people that are getting the trickle down result.
2 Publications:
a. Does globalization help the poor. (Access to all the information to prove your points. (Indian estimates -- 2 million farmers lose land every year. 1000’s go to urban areas. Sell body parts... migration exceeds combined population of US Britain and Australia. Food is rotting in stores. Instead of encouraging food to consume (to help live in sustainable manner).. food made for export instead. Government told not to subsidize food to eat. result in dislocation, starvation etc.
Amit Srivastava
We’re very interested in engaging you; good to be in the US among a group of active Indians/ Indian Americans. I work with a group called CorpWatch, i.e. corporate watch (not ‘corp’ watch!). We look at the negative impacts of corporate activity around the world. This globalization is disastrous for people around the world. It privatizes profits and socializes the risks associated with getting those profits. That is to the benefit of few to the expense of most people in the world.
Most vibrant movements against globalization come out of India. But people are not aware of these movements. We have started CorpWatch India. It’s very important for people outside of India to be involved in movements within India. There is something special about the people in this room. Most of us are Indians or Indian Americans. We are classified as NRIs by the Indian govt. The government looks to us, bends over backwards to get things done in India. They target their outreach especially to get investment from the Indian community.
Very clear to many people – foreign investment is doing more harm than good.
Other point to be made – the single largest investor in India’s “development” comes from U.S. and the number keeps increasing. About 36% of investment comes from US. It’s important to recognize this. We all understand there are so many campaigns in India against globalization – whether in agriculture, gas, oil, Enron, dams, highways…
Unfortunately, most of the power brokers, decision makers do not give a damn about what Indian community is saying about this. Look at the Enron fiasco; it’s a big thing in US now, but half the people in India would have told you this 10 years ago. Enron didn’t feel the need to be accountable in India. Its shareholders don’t live there. Its public image is not important in India. But it is important in US. All the big oil companies, Dow chemicals, Ogden, spend millions on image in US but not in India.
We have learnt over the years, if you can impact that public image, they will take notice and they will react – sometimes +vely, sometimes –vely, sometimes spin – but they will react.
Component in the US that will take action in support of movements in India is Corpwatch India – works with communities in US. We work closely with some chapters and individuals in AID. With Ann Arbor chapter on the campaign against Dow chemicals on Bhopal issue. In 1984 within 3 days 8000 people died in Bhopal. Till today 20,000 have died. Has been the worst corporate crime, worst industrial disaster.
The medical community has requested what is this gas – Union Carbide, and now Dow chemicals say this is a trade secret; even though there are 30 people dying every month till today. Dow has assumed all the assets of Union carbide, making it the second largest chemical company in the world, yet refuses to accept the liability of the disaster. With Ann Arbor, we crashed the Dow shareholders meetings! With some survivors from Bhopal, we got a story in Washington Post in front page of business section. We wanted to affect their share prices, their pocket books - and now finally Dow says lets sit down and talk.
We need to work together on this – Indian community in US as well as communities in US like black, Latino, Native American where by choice toxic industries locate themselves. We’re bringing them on board in the campaign for justice for Bhopal.
Interesting thing going on in India – climate change and global warming. In AP over 1000 people have died from the heat waves. Poor people, Dalits, indigenous ppl. As sea levels rise, fishworkers are affected, their livelihoods. Big climate meeting is being held in Oct. in Delhi. We’re working with fish workers and marginalized people in India to work on this.
ARUNA ROY:
A chant from Bihar – one of the most politically conscious states….from West champaran described as ‘backward’ people were chanting this 10 years ago. When you understand the roots of deprivation and pain are then you can organize campaigns.
We live in Rajasthan in a place very close to Gujarat. 70% of young people migrate from our area to seek employment. Shankar has less than half acre of land, that too in 5 bits – not even as much as a lawn in front of our houses. Most people will cultivate, but they have to work elsewhere, as migrant labor. Children work in dhabas for Rs. 450 or Rs. 500 a month. Our area exports children to work in dhabas.
Chimans singh ji has 4 bhigas of land. Has TB. Runs a Chai dukan. This Chai Dukaan has been appropriated by landowner. They used to go to the small industries around the place. He has come back. Now for a year they have no work. There are thousands.
Keisbhai and others have 40,000 in debts for various reasons. She is also without work. Subsidiary jobs don’t exist. Sainath said has passed milk and milk products act.. If milk is cheaper from outside, (and will happen very soon), then many in Rajasthan will be jobless. Farmers who have committed suicide.. How are people going to live. Govt said they wont jobs. Dalits with special preference and jobless. What are these people going to do. If primary concern is not people centric, then what is the use of economic reforms. Profit and loss are not the only indicators of well being in the world. (People say) I’d rather earn less .. but work for my living. Work keeps me healthy. Work in a manner in which things are created. If they deprive you of a way of life… however much money we get.. if it gets to few hands and deprive others, then there’s a problem. Women… poverty, violence comes, they get weaker. Human conditions if going to be desperate. Even bikaneri chips are going to be made by uncle chips. Well being of a country is not only decided by the number of cars, .. it’s the general well being of the people that determines the health of the country. Health is a very serious issue. TB medicines are really getting expensive. Poor people cannot afford this. People are going to die of very simple diseases. IF neo liberalization means this, I don’t want it.
WE must understand in villages, the linkages between big and small issues. Due to 3 years of acute drought in Rajasthan.. the state government said it didn’t have any money. Only 10% will be covered... the rest will go hungry.. Formed Aakal sangharsh committee.. of people who wanted work. Govt of India said “we decided so many tons will go to Rajasthan, no more”. Food minister said, it’s the CM is doing nothing. WE said we will agitate more. Rural dev. Ministry.. no order. To agriculture ministry… then to cabinet secretary… still no order. Even the minutes had not been officially recorded.. after 2 months. Then they got the official order.. and then got the food.
Had janmanch.. called all political parties… and asked them what would they do to cure food problem. No one had an answer. Hence this comes back to the question of accountability. We want to know why Govt wants the food to rot or sell to other countries and not feed its own people
The Aakal sangharsh comm.. has formed a linked between micro and macro. BBC interviewed Aruna and some big corps. . All corps said all laws can be changed. Money has to go in the right pockets. If leaders don’t care, why would anyone else care. WE have to work against this neo liberalization.
Neo liberalization is linked to communalism. I cannot determine what I can do for the country. Both are insecure. The best thing for political parties is to sell communalism, because we are a insecure people. We tell we are going to form panchayats.. and then you tell us, you cant keep your land. Panchayats formed resolution to have land not taken away.. yet it is taken away.
On terms based on equality and justice between multinationals and indigenous products. (equal subsidies). Which is not the case.
Gandhi’s essential thoughts and political position has to be revived The charka and the revolution was a symbolic act. Gandhi has important messages for all of us and not allow for interpretations of him by BJP of anybody else.
Why AID should be interested ?
How can we run literacy /SHGs/Watershed etc when there is so many migration, new water programs that is coming up/loss of rural economies. Hence we have to acknowledge this impact of G.
Test of Globalization : How it affects people to access their rights for literacy/food/basic necessity.
WE have to get to the point where local communities make the most decision, instead of global community making these. The question is what can we do.
At a project level, try to understand what globalization has done where our projects are implemented. How employment/livelihood/resources etc have been affected. So we have to help them voice their problems at a larger community.
We need to challenge our understanding of development. Govts don’t read what they are signing and hence we need to challenge that. E.g watershed policy.. Rajendra singh came and spoke about govt lending large resources of water to big corps. How does that affect people. What kind of pollutions are we accepting in India.
There are a number of companies that burn toxic waste, and people staying around don’t even have that idea.
Questions
13. To Antonia: Pittsburgh was called the steel city. With cheaper steel coming from Eurpoe and elsewhere, people in the steel industry moved to other businesses….my point is this thing affects Americans too. Do we see as much protest from them?
Antonia: There is protest…just not as noticeable as in India. Moving things, whether people, capital, resources has an enviro. Destruction that is why we keep the term. In US, it was when impacts started hitting here, due to NAFTA and other agreements, the mvmt here was born. Stats of impact to environment, etc. is big. 50,000 people in Seattle is huge turn out. The tiger is here, the struggle here needs to be targeted at exposure.
Amit: There is a movement in US. The environmental movement around 10 years ago here was to do with wilderness, whales etc. But there were large groups fighting chemical industry etc. but were classified as civil rights groups. The black community in Chicago has been surrounded by toxic industry but they considered it part of the civil rights movement; they’ve been fighting for 30-40 years, but saying that because we are black, you are siting the industry here. Same with ‘cancer corridor’ in mid-west.
Antonia: The other thing is the environmental movement in 70s dealing with toxics and waste was very successful.
14. Aravinda: It is difficult, in a panel here, even though some of us feel the panel is not balanced in favor of globalization. Actually I’ve heard very little strong opinion in favor of globalization. It is very empowering to hear from you. The alternatives to globalization are already in practice. We hear that because of the impact of Glob. The laws are being changed, violated, insulting our democracy. Now we hear a US court has ruled it is okay for a corp to pay a bribe in another country. Where do we stand with that?
Antonia: US congress attempted to amend fast track legislation, to say US laws cannot be changed through trade agreements unless congress discusses it, but that was killed. US corps when they operate here or in Mexico/Canada can disregard laws.
Amit: Anti-racketeering laws date back to go after the mafia; we are trying to use these laws to go after MNCs overseas. I want to mention, perhaps my last comment – we feel there should be a balance. I want you to recognize everywhere I am assaulted by globalization, billboards, TV ads etc here and in India. TV etc. is so controlled by those who run this agenda, to be truthful our voices are very much suppressed. If you want the pro-globalization view, go home and switch on the TV!
15. Uma: Globalization always benefits upper middle class, people like us. But Bhopal is a very good example of whom it victimizes. We don’t have to give up our cars to support them.
16. Kameshwar: There have been cases where minorities and disadvantaged have been carried along with globalization.
Example 1 is Amul: Gujarat milk marketing federation buys milk from thousands of farmers. It’s the largest cooperative buying from the largest number of producers. And its one of the largest exporters. Of these coops, 50% of them are ISO9002 certified. So its not only the Wipros that can be world class. There are supposed to be institutions in other areas, like governance. We lack decentralized governance. There is no definition who owns the resources. Even in this skewed globalized framework Indian farmers can benefit. Take example of China. Economically, people who were starving in China have today come a long way.
In AP today, products are being marketed in Girijan areas (where AID supports Aranyika)…we have to organize the marginalized…
17. Malini: Along the lines of what Dr. Bhagat was saying – what we can do? If we know something is going to harm someone. I was working with a premier financial institution in India. Had big loans from world bank, We were going to finance Narmada dam. The money was coming from WB, which was saying we cannot lend this money to anyone who would displace people or habitat. I told the senior person that we are violating this. I collected articles showing them how the project was not conforming. After I quit, they had stopped funding the project because it was violating the conditions. So, if you work in IBM and you know they are violating something or causing harm, you can point out to them.
Sanat:
My intention is not to polarize this group. Let us look at the projects we are funding. I would like to shift this discussion a bit, to ask what we at our chapters can do to increase our understanding of globalization. Let us find the space to argue with people who are for globalization. What can we do in this direction?
Jasraj: I think globalization is not bad. But not implemented the right way. Indian govt. has the right to protect industries we want to. But the political system is not right and we are letting them come in. Indian companies are violating laws too…
Aravinda: Are we making more public what we are doing …for example press release about this panel discussion. We need to put some energy into linking all the efforts of our chapters.
Altindia.net/enron
Ifg.org
Globalexchange.org